Comparing Export Options When Shooting HDV

[George Tyndall]

Purpose: To learn which of the available options for export in Premiere Elements 3.0 results in the highest quality movie, when shooting HDV.

Procedure: I located a 1-minute HD m2t clip on my hard drive that begins with the head of a dark-haired woman who is smiling enough to show her teeth. The shot slowly tilts from her hair to her teeth to an ornamental necklace that has a number of embedded beads in the main hanging portion, plus a number of additional beads that dangle from this main portion. As the necklace falls from her chest the dangling beads begin to twirl on their axes. I am at full zoom with my Canon HV30 (430mm) on a tripod when viewing them. The HD 1080i tape was subsequently captured with HDVSplit, which, as its name suggests, split the scenes automatically then dropped them on my external hard drive.

The individual HDVSplit scenes can be opened/played with Windows Media Player, and let me say at the outset that NONE OF THE BELOW looked quite as clear in Windows Media Player as the original m2t clip. Specifically, none of the below renderings captured the details of her dark hair, the separation of her teeth, or the spinning of the little multicolored balls with as much clarity as may be seen in the original clip. Nonetheless, I was pleasantly surprised by the results.

I exported the M2T Timeline to the following Hi Def (HD) formats:

1) HDV 1080i.m2t (i.e., MPEG2/m2t to MPEG2/m2t)
2) 1080 60i.wmv
3) HD MPEG 720P.m2t
4) HD WMV720p.wmv

Despite multiple attempts, when I opened each of these files from my hard drive I could not visualize any significant difference in quality. As I said, none, including the first, looked quite as clear in Windows Media Viewer as the original m2t clip that HDVSplit had dropped on my hard drive.

Next, I exported the HD m2t clips on the Timeline to the following formats, after which I created a DVD from each format:

1) MPEG NTSC DVD.mpg
2) DV AVI

Again, despite multiple visualizations, I could not identify any significant difference in quality between these 2 formats.

My next step was, as suggested on the dviForum, to import my previously exported m2t movie onto a Timeline with the project preset DV NTSC Widescreen.

Despite multiple viewings, I could not identify any difference in clarity/quality in comparison with either 1) or 2) immediately above.

The final step of my research was to “downconvert” in camera my m2t tape for capture by PE 3.0. The result of this capture was that PE3.0 automatically placed on the Timeline a file entitled “DV NTSC Widescreen Preset 02.avi.” I then went to File> Export>Export to DVD, which took me directly to the “Burn DVD” dialog. As everyone on this website doubtless knows already, “downconversion” is the method that gives the clearest/highest quality SD DVD.

That result, for me, is a bit of a bummer, for the following reasons: I am already in the position of having to export my PSE4.0 slide shows 2 times: first to HD WMV 720p for subsequent playback in Windows Media Center; second, from HD WMV 720p to H.264 (MPEG4) for playback on my iPod. If I wish also to create a SD DVD of the highest quality with PE3.0, in addition I must go back to the original tape and “downconvert” it for a second round of editing and assembly on the Timeline. Life would be ever so much simpler if only I could export my already-edited HD WMV 720p movie as a DV AVI then use the latter to create the DVD. Is the difference in quality significant enough to make me want to go through the hassle of downconversion? The answer is yes, the improvement is that significant.

Chuck, you’ve suggested that Premiere Pro CS3 might allow me the luxury of converting an HD file to an SD file from the Timeline, which I could then use to create my DVD, however, the sad fact that is that the trial version of PP CS3 does not allow one to work with any HDV project preset. In addition, one is not allowed to burn a DVD with EncoreCS3 in the trial version. Taken together, those two facts would seem to make “trying the trial version” of Premiere Pro CS3 a waste of time.

It seems very odd that Adobe offers a trial version of software that is designed for editing HDV and for burning DVDs but that can't actually edit HDV or burn DVDs while one is still in the trial period.

[sidd finch]

The first paragraph sounded a bit riske

Sidd

[Chuck Engels]

Sidd, that really made me laugh because I was thinking the same thing

[George Tyndall]

The first paragraph sounded a bit riske

Sidd

The first or the second?

[Chuck Engels]

Technically I guess it would be the second paragraph

[George Tyndall]

Sidd, that really made me laugh because I was thinking the same thing

Hi Chuck,

After writing that post, I spent the remainder of the day trying to assemble my first 1-hour movie, which will be composed of about 2 dozen m2t clips, in PE 3.0.

I could not complete the project in one day because of recurrent crashes. "Sorry, ... has encountered a serious problem and needs to close...." These seemed to occur after splitting a scene in the monitor panel into a number of different parts so that I could apply differing properties to the different segments, for example, move 1 segment up within the "safe margins" frame, move another down, or to the left or the right, zoom in on another, etc. The other reason for the frequent splitting was to remove dropped frames from within the clips. ( I am assuming that the red and green empty frames represent dropped frames.)

I've become so concerned about the lost time that I am thinking about editing each of the 24 clips one-by-one in PE3.0 before assembling them for the final movie. My reasoning is that I would rather lose one scene from a crash than half a project, which happened to me today. (Despite my frequent saves, PE3.0 could not recover my PREL file, and the result is that I had to start over, from the beginning, three times, which is why I am still not done.)

If you have any other suggestions, then I am, a la Ross Perot, all ears.

[Chuck Engels]

Hi George, I am really sorry to hear that you are having so much trouble.
Did you know that you can set the auto save feature to save your project every so many minutes and save as many of those files as you want? That way you never have to go back too far to get a good project file. That doesn't help with the crashes but it might help you not have to start over again. The Auto Save feature is in the Preferences or Project Settings, I can't remember for sure but it should be easy to find and set up. Just remember that you have to manually save your project at least once for the auto save feature to start working.

As far as the crashes go, maybe someone has an idea why that might be happening.
Premiere Elements is usually one of the most crash free video editing apps out there.
Do you have the version 3 patch installed?

[George Tyndall]

Hi George, I am really sorry to hear that you are having so much trouble.
Did you know that you can set the auto save feature to save your project every so many minutes and save as many of those files as you want? That way you never have to go back too far to get a good project file. That doesn't help with the crashes but it might help you not have to start over again. The Auto Save feature is in the Preferences or Project Settings, I can't remember for sure but it should be easy to find and set up. Just remember that you have to manually save your project at least once for the auto save feature to start working.

As far as the crashes go, maybe someone has an idea why that might be happening.
Premiere Elements is usually one of the most crash free video editing apps out there.
Do you have the version 3 patch installed?

Yes, I have Auto-Save set to every 2 minutes so I've got tons of saves. Do I merely reopen the last save before the crash?

What is "the version 3 patch"? I've got Version 3.0 Silverbullet, and to click on Update infroms me that there are no updates available.

[Bob]

The version 3 patch is located here: http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/ ... ftpID=3565

After the patch is applied, you will be at version 3.0.2 (the version number will show on the right side of the splash screen just below the picture of the kids playing soccer).

[George Tyndall]

As far as the crashes go, maybe someone has an idea why that might be happening.
Premiere Elements is usually one of the most crash free video editing apps out there.
Do you have the version 3 patch installed?

Hi Chuck,

Problem solved. I was failing in some cases to split the clip I had just edited before performing an opposing edit on that same clip, so PE3.0 got confused.

BTW, how does one save one's edited m2t clips for future use?

[Chuck Engels]

Glad you got it worked out George

If you want to save your edited video you can export, just extend the work area bar over only the section of the timeline you would like to export. Then when you select your export options be sure to choose 'Work Area Only'

[George Tyndall]

Glad you got it worked out George

If you want to save your edited video you can export, just extend the work area bar over only the section of the timeline you would like to export. Then when you select your export options be sure to choose 'Work Area Only'

Thanks still once again for a valuable tip. Is there also a way to move an edited clip back to the Media Panel then save it from there for future use?

BTW, the PE3.0 crashes are occurring because of defective m2t clips, which I discovered when I tried to pre-play the clips in Windows Media Viewer. When I have time, I will play back the original tape to see if the glitches originate with it. (I let HDVSplt record the entire tape while I was sleeping, so I was not watching like I usually do.)

[Chuck Engels]

Hi George,
There are three tutorials in the products area, '(Elements #4) Trimming Clips', and 'The Work Area Bar' parts 1 and 2, those will help.
The trimming clips tutorial was done in verion 2 but it pretty much the same in versions 3 and 4. If you have any questions just ask

You cannot edit clips on the timeline and drag them back to the media panel, you can trim clips in the media panel, save them back to the media panel and even export them. That is why many of us do not edit all clips on the timeline, but will edit them in the clip monitor.
All you have to do is set in and out points and drag the new sub-clip to the media panel, then you can drop that on the timeline and/or export.

[jackfalbey]

These seemed to occur after splitting a scene in the monitor panel into a number of different parts so that I could apply differing properties to the different segments, for example, move 1 segment up within the "safe margins" frame, move another down, or to the left or the right, zoom in on another, etc.

You mentioned that you traced the crashes back to defective source clips. You should also keep in mind that adding motion to a video clip, especially an HDV clip, is enormously taxing to the CPU and RAM and can easily cause PE to lock up. I've had CS3 lock up on me while applying motion to DV clips on my Core2Duo 2.2GHz laptop, which was designed specifically to be a mobile video editing workstation. Short of getting a faster PC, I would definitely recommend working in smaller segments and reassembling them after they're edited.

I also want to say thanks for putting in so much time experimenting and then posting your results. You've only been here a short time, but you've already contributed a great deal of knowledge. I'm sure many others will benefit from your hard work.

[George Tyndall]

That is why many of us do not edit all clips on the timeline, but will edit them in the clip monitor.
All you have to do is set in and out points and drag the new sub-clip to the media panel, then you can drop that on the timeline and/or export.

That's it! That is EXACTLY the solution that I need. And yes, it was, if memory serves, in the Tutorial on trimming ciips that I read about that method, but I had forgotten where I had read it.

Thanks still once again!