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Analogue to Digital Converter Help

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Analogue to Digital Converter Help

Postby Avagadro1 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 10:20 pm

Question about analogue to digital converters.

I am a beginner who as of yet does not own video editing software and has never worked on a video (though I own Photoshop for still images). Like so many others, I wish to convert some VHS home movies from the 1970s and 80s to DVD. I’ve done my homework but need input from some experienced individuals with respect to the purchase of an analog to digital converter.

At the consumer level, there seem to be just three A to D converters:
The Grass Valley/Canopus ADVC-55,
The Grass Valley/Canopus ADVC-110, and
The Grass Valley/Canopus ADVC-300.

I understand that the 110 is otherwise identical to the 55, but the former is bidirectional. Since I will never want to save a digital signal onto a VHS tape, it would seem that the 110 is wasted money over the model 55.

The model 300 seems to be an entirely different animal (and much more expensive). Its advantages are that it does something called “Time Based Correction”, which I understand can be helpful in converting older VHS tapes. The model 300 also includes software to correct the image during capture. Even thought the model 300 is so much more expensive than the 55, given that this will be a once-in-a-lifetime project (and I do not anticipate ever using it again), I would consider paying the price if, in fact, it produced a truly superior end product.

(Note: I also intend to purchase some editing software: Premier Elements, Sony, VideoStudio or other, but have held off due to so may poor Amazon and Newegg reviews on all of them, but I’ll definitely choose one.)

Now the surprise: the model 300 has recently been discontinued; no retailers have it. But it is almost certainly available used on ebay. I assume that some, if not many, of the members of MUVIPX have experience using A to D converters, including the Grass Valley/Canopus ADVC-55, ADVC-110 and ADVC-300. Given what you know of my purposes, should I purchase a used ADVC-300 on ebay. Or would the model 55 do just as well? (I use a Windows 7 PC, Intel i5 processor and 8Gb RAM.)

Thank you for your comments.

Howard
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Re: Analogue to Digital Converter Help

Postby Chuck Engels » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:16 pm

Hi Howard,
Welcome to Muvipix :meet:

I highly recommend the ADVC-300 for tapes that old.
I have the ADS Pyro Link, it is less expensive and it is a reasonably good product but if I was to buy again it would definitely be the ADVC-300 ;)

This is what's great about the 300 :)
Featuring high-quality image enhancement technology including digital noise reduction and image stabilization using Line Time Base Correction (LTBC), ADVC300 instantly cleans, stabilizes and preserves old VHS and Hi8 videos in clean DV format.


Not all of the others have the LTBC feature, that really helps eliminate dropped frames or at least keeps them to a minimum :TU:
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Re: Analogue to Digital Converter Help

Postby Avagadro1 » Sat Oct 27, 2012 11:53 pm

Chuck Engels wrote:Hi Howard,
Welcome to Muvipix :meet:

I highly recommend the ADVC-300 for tapes that old.
I have the ADS Pyro Link, it is less expensive and it is a reasonably good product but if I was to buy again it would definitely be the ADVC-300 ;)

This is what's great about the 300 :)
Featuring high-quality image enhancement technology including digital noise reduction and image stabilization using Line Time Base Correction (LTBC), ADVC300 instantly cleans, stabilizes and preserves old VHS and Hi8 videos in clean DV format.


Not all of the others have the LTBC feature, that really helps eliminate dropped frames or at least keeps them to a minimum :TU:



Thank you for the reply; it is very helpful. Of course, now the challenge is finding an ADVC-300, since they are no longer manufactured.

Separately, but related, I have read that some JVC prosumer VCRs (now discontinued but possibly available used) produce much better output that a "regular" VCR, and have TBC built in. I assume that using such a VCR would eliminate the need to use the ADVC-300 (the model 55 would do), as the TBC would be done by the VCR instead. Ever used such a VCR for the purposes we are discussing?

Finally, since I have only about 10 VHS tapes to convert, what about allowing a professional studio (that always uses professional decks with TBC) to do the capture? In other words, while they usually also create the DVD, they could --- perhaps --- place the "raw" captured video on disk or a hard drive. Then, after I decide upon video editing software, I would use the "raw" file, now in AVI format, to do the editing.

Does this sound feasible?

Thank you,

Howard


By the way. Although I am brand new to your website and forums, I would have though there would be much more discussion on converting VHS/Beta tapes, including issues of hardware capture devices. Could it be that I am very late to that party inasmuch as most who have wanted to do so have already done so? (And perhaps why Grass Valley seems to be the last manufacturer of consumer-level convertes still in business.)
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Re: Analogue to Digital Converter Help

Postby John 'twosheds' McDonald » Sun Oct 28, 2012 1:47 am

Welcome to Muvipix, Howard. :wcm:

I had a similar number of VHS tapes to convert and, fortunately, my camera had an analogue to digital pass through capability - no TBC though.

It did a good enough job and saved me having to buy a device specially for the purpose. Just a thought. :-D
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Re: Analogue to Digital Converter Help

Postby Paul LS » Sun Oct 28, 2012 2:59 am

I have read that some JVC prosumer VCRs (now discontinued but possibly available used) produce much better output that a "regular" VCR, and have TBC built in. I assume that using such a VCR would eliminate the need to use the ADVC-300


... unfortunately not. I have a JVC prosumer VCR with TBC and also a professional TBC unit (Datavideo TBC-2000). The JVC has a line TBC which corrects distortions in vertical lines in the picture that are due to time base errors whereas the time base unit is a frame TBC which will prevent dropped frames. The TBC gives a sync signal at all times whereas the VCR will not if the video tape drops out.

Alternatively you could use a set-top DVD recorder with a standard VCR. These DVD recorders will record "through" the bad spot. You could then load the generated MPEG/VOB into your video editor for editing. Best to use an editor that has smart rendering for MPEG to maintain quality.
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Re: Analogue to Digital Converter Help

Postby Chuck Engels » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:39 am

Avagadro1 wrote:
By the way. Although I am brand new to your website and forums, I would have though there would be much more discussion on converting VHS/Beta tapes, including issues of hardware capture devices. Could it be that I am very late to that party inasmuch as most who have wanted to do so have already done so? (And perhaps why Grass Valley seems to be the last manufacturer of consumer-level convertes still in business.)



There have been lots of discussions about this topic over the years, it kind of comes and goes.
That is exactly how I got involved with many of the fine people here back in 2004.
If you do a search for "VHS Tapes" you will come up with 70 pages of posts, most of them having to do with conversion to digital format and the problems surrounding that process.

John and Paul have given some great advice above :TU:

If you want to have a professional company do the conversion for you that can work fine, pick a local reputable company and get references. Then, you need to know what format to have them convert the video to and that will depend upon what video editor you choose to work with. If you will be using Premiere Elements then you would prefer to have the video converted to DV-AVI format.
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Re: Analogue to Digital Converter Help

Postby Avagadro1 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:34 pm

Paul LS wrote:
I have read that some JVC prosumer VCRs (now discontinued but possibly available used) produce much better output that a "regular" VCR, and have TBC built in. I assume that using such a VCR would eliminate the need to use the ADVC-300


... unfortunately not. I have a JVC prosumer VCR with TBC and also a professional TBC unit (Datavideo TBC-2000). The JVC has a line TBC which corrects distortions in vertical lines in the picture that are due to time base errors whereas the time base unit is a frame TBC which will prevent dropped frames. The TBC gives a sync signal at all times whereas the VCR will not if the video tape drops out.

Alternatively you could use a set-top DVD recorder with a standard VCR. These DVD recorders will record "through" the bad spot. You could then load the generated MPEG/VOB into your video editor for editing. Best to use an editor that has smart rendering for MPEG to maintain quality.



Thank you for the assistance, though I must acknowledge that some of what you wrote is a bit beyond my present state of knowledge. But I get the idea.

The only point that surprises me is with respect to the digital format to maintain quality. From my still-limited reading, I was under the impression that I should absolutely avoid MPEG and convert the analog to AVI (much as still digital images should be in PSD or TIFF, never JPEG, if one intends to edit the image).

Thanks again,

Howard
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Re: Analogue to Digital Converter Help

Postby Avagadro1 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 10:55 pm

Chuck Engels wrote:
Avagadro1 wrote:
By the way. Although I am brand new to your website and forums, I would have though there would be much more discussion on converting VHS/Beta tapes, including issues of hardware capture devices. Could it be that I am very late to that party inasmuch as most who have wanted to do so have already done so? (And perhaps why Grass Valley seems to be the last manufacturer of consumer-level convertes still in business.)


There have been lots of discussions about this topic over the years, it kind of comes and goes.
That is exactly how I got involved with many of the fine people here back in 2004.
If you do a search for "VHS Tapes" you will come up with 70 pages of posts, most of them having to do with conversion to digital format and the problems surrounding that process.

John and Paul have given some great advice above :TU:

If you want to have a professional company do the conversion for you that can work fine, pick a local reputable company and get references. Then, you need to know what format to have them convert the video to and that will depend upon what video editor you choose to work with. If you will be using Premiere Elements then you would prefer to have the video converted to DV-AVI format.


Thank you for the advice regarding video format.

I have not yet purchased video editing software as it seems that, at least from reviews on Newegg and Amazon, the ratio of poor to good reviews is very high on most of the major products. Many have even called the EARLIER versions of Premier Elements as "shamefully bad". As an eight-year user of the full version of Photoshop (CS to CS5) without ever experiencing a crash, it seems incredible that Premier Elements could receive SO MANY terrible reviews (including by apparently experienced computer users with well more than enough horsepower), but there they are for all to read. Of course it is also true that other video editors seem to receive a similar ratio of poor to good reviews.

So I suppose that this leaves only one reasonable two-part course: (1) I should not purchase any such program unless it is among the programs for which Chuck Engels has written a "how to" book, and (2) may as well purchase the program about which he has most written. (I don't expect too much argument in this strategy!)

Thanks again,

Howard
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Re: Analogue to Digital Converter Help

Postby John 'twosheds' McDonald » Mon Oct 29, 2012 1:03 am

I don't think that you should be swayed too much by Amazon/NewEgg reviews. I used to use PrEl (before switching to PrPro) and I never found anything to complain about.

Most folk here use either PrEl or one of the Sony Vegas editors; a few use other products. Yes, there is a learning curve - as with any sophisticated software - but one very quickly gets to grips with the process. We all here started as beginners once so we understand how much time and effort has to be put in to learn the technology and the technical terms. But, by and large, any comments posted here end to be more focused on 'how to..' or similar questions rather than slating the software.

In truth, I can't recollect any severely negative comments here about any product other than older versions of Pinnacle editors. And that is from a Muvipix user base of beginner to experienced users.
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Re: Analogue to Digital Converter Help

Postby Paul LS » Mon Oct 29, 2012 2:23 am

The only point that surprises me is with respect to the digital format to maintain quality. From my still-limited reading, I was under the impression that I should absolutely avoid MPEG and convert the analog to AVI


... yes, MPEG is a delivery format, when you have converted your VHS tapes to DV-AVI and have edited them you will probably burn them to DVD for viewing. DVD is MPEG format... so at some stage you will convert to MPEG (or another compressed format for viewing on the internet). The issue comes when you edit MPEG and then render the changes and export to MPEG again... each time you reduce the quality. That is why I advised to use an editor which has smart rendering. With smart rendering the MPEG is not recompressed when exported.

AVI is certainly the best format for archiving. But also note that the quality of most VHS recordings is comparable to a fairly low bit rate MPEG anyway.
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