Importance of similar formats???

[Naturopath4you]

Please do not guess at this one as I find that guesses often end up wrong.
Have any of you proven by trial and error that rendering different formats of video (each on their own video line NOT MIXED on the same line) can cause an issue in rendering.
Please let me give you my actual example.

Each of the 6 three hour classes in this 18 hour course I am trying to finish has 3 things on the timeline
This is a split screen dual video and on the left is the video of my face and torso lecturing, g which was shot with a Cannon Vixia producing a 1440 x 1080 29FPS MTS file
Directly below the above is the camera's audio from this lecture (which I have taken off, cleaned up in Adobe Audition, and put back in proper sync)

the third line is the second video which is cropped to become the right 3/4 of the screen and this video is from My Screen Recorder Pro which generates a .WMV 1280 x 720 20FPS high resolution Video file

The first 5 classes I was able to complete and render and they all look just fine, even though the continual crashing, weeks ago, forced me to archive each class and then move it to my i5 Laptop to render.
I Would have preferred to do so on my i7 main computer but it kept crashing even with a much faster i7 CPU, more RAM and a much better Geoforce GTX-750 video card.

Now for some unknown reason, I cannot get the final class to render. It continually (on my laptop) gets all the way to 100% (in 8 hours) but has a compiling error on the screen when its done and the file is corrupt.
I have now tried rendering it with each of the 3 lines deleted in order to find the problem.
When I delete the .WMV screen capture video file, it renders - so I am stumped, as all the other 5 classes should have been the same.

Maybe I might have used the audio from the screen capture program on the other 5 and from the Cannon VIXIA on this one? that is the only thing I can think of but I'm nor sure.
Should I try converting the .WMV video to some different format and put it back in place?

I can't do anything about the 20 versus 29 FPS differences since the screen capture only goes up to 20FPS and I can't reduce the VIXI too much, maybe to 25, or it will trail my arms when I move. Besides, it worked on the last 5 three hour class lectures. I am open to educated suggestions that are not just shots in the dark as to why this last class will never complete a render
HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Steve Grisetti]

Unfortunately, David, since none of us have your computer, your video and your project right in front of us, all we can do is speculate and then offer ways for you to troubleshoot your project.

And we did a lot of that in your other thread -- which was pretty much dealing with this same issue, right? And I'm not sure we resolved anything there.

One option I can offer you is that, since you have this project on an external drive, you can send your drive to me or one of our other moderators by mail and we can dig into it and see if we can see what's going on.

Unfortunately, computers (ALL computers, both Macs and PCs) are like little eco-systems, each having developed its own environment from programs and updates installed over the years. No two are exactly alike. And there usually is no one size fits all solution.

Also, as I said before, when you're dealing with an unusually large project (and anything over 30 minutes is large for a home video), whatever issues you've got going on are going to greatly magnified. Which is why I earlier suggested that you try breaking it into 10-20 minute pieces as an experiment, until you're sure you've got a doable workflow.

So it's up to you, David. We're glad to do whatever we can for you. Unfortunately, with these kinds of buggy behaviors, there's rarely a one-size-fits-all solution.

Make sense?

[Naturopath4you]

Steve,
that is a great idea. I will Archive Copy the class onto a USB 3.0 flash drive and mail it to any address you supply me with.
Just tell me where to send it.
Now that I have completely rebuilt the project with my original files, and yet still cannot get it to complete a rendering, set
at the same settings which are
Computer - AVCHD - MP4 H264 1440 x 1080p 25 These settings worked just fine on all 5 other 3 hour classes
I would love to have your help in figuring it out
I can only hope that your computer has the same issue with the project, since if it renders perfectly at my setting on your
computer, we don't get any answers.

My only separate question is please teach me how splitting up long projects can help me. I truly don't understand. If the final project is a 3 hour video to be used as one file/video/movie
won't I still need to re-render every single shorter file together with the same completed 3 hour length when I'm done with all the split up segments??? To make one file for the final movie? And so I will still have the final huge render but have simply given myself a great deal of extra work??
What am I missing about your suggestion, since for the reason stated above it does not make sense to me. I must not understand something so please help me with that as a separate question.

Meanwhile, where should I send this Thumb drive
David

[Steve Grisetti]

As I said, the bigger the load you give your computer, the more any weak spots in your operating system are going to be revealed. Even Hollywood movies are made in smaller segments and then united into one final project.

The easiest way to cut a large project into smaller segments is to save several copies of the project by using Save As. Name one Part 1, another Part 2, etc. Then open each segment and cut and throw away all but one segment. For instance, you could cut Part 1 at the 20 minute point and throw away the rest of the movie. Then, in Part 2, you throw away everything before the 20 minute point and after the 40 minute point and so on so that each part is only 20 minutes long.

You can output each segment of your project by using Publish & Share/Computer/AVCHD with the 1920x1080 M2T preset. You can then combine Part 1, Part 2, etc., onto a new timeline and output your finished movie at its feature length. This breaks the work the program needs to do into 20 minute bite-sized pieces.

But it's up to you. It's like Chuck and I used to say: There are two ways to bring the groceries into the house. You can bring them in one bag at a time, making several trips -- or you can try to do it all in one trip and maybe end up making a mess.

Meantime, I've sent you a private message with my home address. You can send your project file to me and I'll see if it works on my computer and, if not, why not.

Once again, every operating system is different, so I can't promise I can get it to work on your computer. But at least we can see if there's a bug in the project itself.

Fair 'nuff?

[Bob]

Dave,

You have a whole lot going on in that project. You're mixing different video formats, frame sizes, frame rates, and most likely interlaced and progressive field processing. That's a lot more complex than it appears on the surface. Premiere elements, and your system, has to do a lot of work to handle that. And, to top it off, that's a very long video -- even by Hollywood standards. By subdividing the project, you are potentially reducing the load on your system. With smaller segments you will potentially require less memory and smaller temporary disk work files. When you export the segment, you will have effectively pre-rendered/composited it. Yes, when you combine the segments to make the final complete video, you will need to render again, but this time it's very easy because all those extra calculations Premiere Elements had to do to resolve all those differences will have already been done. All Premiere Elements has to do is decode the input and encode the output. It's a lot less strain on your system.

You do have some issues with those source files you are using. WMV, for example, uses what's known as a distribution codec. It uses very high compression which is good for reducing the size of the file. But, it's not particularly well suited for editing. The editor has to work hard to deal with it. You could try converting the wmv files to another format and see if that helps. Since the wmv files on the other classes worked, there may be something going on with the ones in this particular project. If so, if they can be converted, that should help eliminate that possibility also.

There's something odd about your vixia footage. You say they are avchd .mts files, but you also say they are 1440 x 1080p which is not in the avchd specification. 1440 x 1080 is more commonly associated with interlaced HDV footage which is typical of the HD footage produced by the tape based Canon camcorders.

Premiere Elements can generally handle all those mixed format conversions, but your project settings and output settings can make a difference in the quality of the conversions.

[Naturopath4you]

David (good name),
Thank you very much for your extremely thorough answer. I just put the project on a USB3 thumb drive and am mailing it to Steve to look at.

My Cannon VIXIA has many settings and the SP (standard Play) setting is the one I use for class since is totally sufficient for my purposes and producers a smaller file size and it's the 1440 x 1080 at 29 frames per second.

Thank you so much for your explanation that I will discuss below.
You are the first to explain to me the idea that, if I cut it into let's say 6 segments, and if (we shall see) they all render at that smaller size,
that later, when I am done and need to re-stitch them all together and render the entire group, that Elements will have an easier time due to the fact that so much of what it needs to do, will now already have been done during the individual rendering process of the segments, and so it will be far easier for elements to do the final 3 hours even though the full time is the same. That makes sense.

Sort of like not giving one cabinetmaker 6 rough cut pieces of wood, but instead having each one partially finished before he gets them all to do the final manufacturing work on.
I will try that.
I could also use one of my better video conversion programs to maybe convert both video formats to MPEG or AVI or whatever you might recommend, before bringing them onto the timeline to work on the project.
If that got rid of enough of the work that Elements will have to do, I could leave the entire 3 hours together and save some time. I May end up trying both methods and reporting back to all of you while Steve looks at my project and possibly gives me some more very helpful advice or information.
Do you all ever get together anywhere? Love to meet you all. I fly to scientific nutrition conferences 1 to 4 times each year both as a presenter or as an attendee.
Thanks again, really very much appreciate your input.

[Steve Grisetti]

I usually recommend against using a converter program, unless you really know what you're doing. Because there are so many codecs, bitrates and compression ratios out there, converter from one format to another will often create a file that is LESS rather than MORE compatible than the original file.

[Naturopath4you]

Bob's explanation, the first one anyone wrote out in longhand for me, of smaller renders and then a large final render and why it is better and why the final render is not just double rendering everything, got me to try splitting it up. You guys know too much and so your brain doesn't think to write such a thorough explanation as Bob did even when I had asked for it once or twice.
My wife says I can do this in the nutrition field so don't feel bad,.
Now that Bob's explanation covered all the bases that I had not understood, so that now I finally do understand why to try splitting up the 3 hours, I have started to do so. The first three 30 minute segments rendered just fine, I will try 45 minutes each for the last few.
I look forward to anything Steve can add when he looks at my actual project.
Will let you all know if I get it completed
Why I need to be doing the rendering on my i5 laptop as it keeps crashing my i7 main frame I will be investigating with my computer repair/rebuild technician.
David

[Peru]

You guys know too much and so your brain doesn't think to write such a thorough explanation as Bob did

Bob is our resident expert. On everything.
I've often answered a question and then Bob would say the same thing in a way that could be better understood by all.

[Naturopath4you]

I understand that as I strive to be that in my classes. I have often had students say they wish I had been their teacher for all their difficult subjects
since as soon as I realize my answer was not understood, I re-explain it till they get it. So I finally got it about smaller files. I am on segment 4 of 6 right now and
I have my fingers crossed. Still interested though, in any feedback Steve gives me when he has my project in his hands.
Also don't understand why, when I archive copy a project and open it on another (or the same) computer, it often cannot find on of the files and I have to locate the file in the archive
show it where IT ITSELF HAD PUT IT !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!