Problem with export quality (DV)

[erir]

Hi,

during my tests with PRE11 I ran into another problem: The quality of a mpeg-2 -> DV-Quicktime export with PRE11 on a MAC is viewable bad (compared to another video editing solution on Windows). I can not see so much details in the resulting video and the titles are not so sharpen. I am using the same input file on both.

I tested with different settings in PRE11 like "max render bit depth" and so on but I am not able to get the same good results like with the other program. I can not believe why PRE11 should deliver "bad" results. I am using the same mpeg-2 input file.

Perhaps it is important that I am using the trial version of PRE11 at the moment. Perhaps the "Created with ..." banner in the resulting video has some impact to the quality?

Perhaps I am missing something because I am new to PRE11 but I normally only drag the mpeg-2 file to the timeline. Cut all after 4 min off and do then the export to quicktime DV. This in both programs.

Regards,
Erik

[Steve Grisetti]

What type of video are you starting with, Erik? What model of camcorder is it from and that format and resolution is it?

Since you're using the trial version of the program, you may be missing a key component for interpreting your video.

The output from the Windows and Mac versions of the program should be identical, when coming from identical source video in project set to the same project settings.

[erir]

Hi Steve,

I start with a mpeg-2 video file. I need to edit this file (add titles and do some cuts and so on). So I want to convert it to DV first. The program on the windows computer is from a different manufacturer. So far I ca see only the mpeg-2 to DV delivers different quality. When I am using the DV file from the windows program and do an export to mpeg-2 with PRE11 on MAC is got the same quality. When I am using the DV file from PRE11 I get a worser quality mpeg-2 file after convert. Perhaps the mpeg-2 to DV functionality in PRE11 is not so good. Perhaps no one is using this these days with all the HD video formats. I will continue to investigate and I will try to ask Adobe support directly.

Best regards,
Erik

[Steve Grisetti]

Again, I'm not sure I can speak for any quality issues when you're using the trial version of the program.

But just as an experiment, later today I'll output DV file from the same source video on my Mac and on my PC and I'll post screen captures here. Then we can all make a fair comparison.

[erir]

Hi Steve,

as soon the full version arrived here (I think the packet should arrive tomorrow) I will test it again. You are right: Perhaps the test version has some issues.

I am using Quicktime 10 player on MAC for the preview of the files.

One interesting thing: When I import the DV-Quicktime files created by the Windows program into PRE11 and export it as DV-Quicktime I see almost no difference in the output files.
So when there is an issue it seems the quality of reading mpeg-2 files in PRE11.

Perhaps I can use the streamclip program as a workaround. I like PRE11 and I am assume that PRE11 is almost identical to the big PR Pro. So I think there must be some issue on my side.

One note: I am using a different product on the Windows side (not PRE11). But I am migrating all my stuff to MAC at the moment.

Steve: Again many thanks for your time in helping me with this issue.

Regards,
Erik

[Steve Grisetti]

Okay, here are my results. Same source file (MPEG from a DVD). Same output settings (DV file, then captured from PC screen from Quicktime player). The one on the left is from the PC version of the program; the one on the right is from the Mac version.

I sure can't see any difference! But I'd like to see if you get the same results.

[erir]

Steve,

I agree with you. Both picture of your side are of the same quality. I tried to make two screen shoots with my both results on my side.
The first one is from PRE11 the second one is from the other program (other manufacturer) on windows. I believe to see a difference in the sharpness of the characters
and a difference in the color of the white background. The mpeg2 files are very old and from old vhs tapes so the quality is bad at start. So I am trying to not loosing to much further quality if possible.

file1_PRE11.jpg

other.jpg

Regards,
Erik

[Steve Grisetti]

The interlacing is more apparent in the first screen cap. You must be outputting as an interlaced file. It's a bit hard to judge the quality of an output when the file is interlaced and you're looking at it on a computer screen.

What happens if you output your video as Publish & Share/Computer/AVCHD using the YouTube SD preset? It should look much clearer.

[erir]

Hi,

the full version of PRE11 arrived today. I deinstalled the trial version and installed the full version. The good news: The export is now 1/3 faster than before. I assume the inserting of the "Trial ... " into every frame takes time. However the DV export quality is behind the quality of the other program. As a workaround I tried to use the mpeg-2 file directly for cutting and export then directly to a DVD. Looking at the results with DVD player gives better quality. So you are absolutely right: Looking and jugging interlaced video material on a PC monitor is not helpful.

So far I understood it should be possible to view the contents of the timeline on an external device like the ADVC-110 over Firefire and connect a TV to this device (Playback settings/External device)?

Regards,
Erik

[erir]

Hi,

to find out where the quality get lost I installed the trial version of PRP CS6 on my MAC. I imported the same mpeg-2 file and I did the same export to a DV-Quicktime file like before. I tested the quality with Quicktime player again (I know not the best method) and the quality is the same like from the other windows program. It looks even a little bit better for me.

So the quality lost seems to be happens in PRE11 when convert mpeg-2 to DV.

Regards,
Erik

[Steve Grisetti]

I'd like to see an example of your side-by-side comparisons, Erik, as I did above.

Use the same MPEG as a source in both your Premiere Elements and Premiere CS6 project and ensure both projects are using the same project properties. Then output/share from each a DV-MOV using the same output specs. Then both examples to the same frame of video, both in Quicktime Player and do a screen capture and post it here as a JPEG.

You might well be right. But I'd sure like to see these apples side by side for comparison.

[erir]

Hi Steve,

here are the three screen shoots. First is the DV-Export from PPCS6 on MAC, second is the DV-Export from PRE11 on MAC and third is the DV-export from a different consumer program on Windows. I did only set the project (automatically in PRE11), import the mpeg-2 file, cut to 4 min and then export to DV-quicktime without touching anything else.

PPCS6_DV_export.jpg

PRE11_DV_export.jpg

edius_neo_DV_export.jpg

Best regards,
Erik

[Steve Grisetti]

What format of DV did you select for your outputs? Are all three DV MOV files?

[erir]

Yes, all three video files are Quicktime DV format (MOV).

Here are some technical spec from the resulting DV Quicktime video files (ffmpeg -i output from the MAC):


PPCS06_DV_export:

Metadata:
major_brand : qt
minor_version : 537199360
compatible_brands: qt
creation_time : 2012-12-12 07:00:50
Duration: 00:04:01.10, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 30308 kb/s
Stream #0:0(eng): Video: dvvideo (dvc / 0x20637664), yuv411p, 720x480 [SAR 8:9 DAR 4:3], 28771 kb/s, SAR 10:11 DAR 15:11, 29.97 fps, 29.97 tbr, 30k tbn, 29.97 tbc
Metadata:
creation_time : 2012-12-12 07:00:50
handler_name : Apple Alias Data Handler
Stream #0:1(eng): Audio: pcm_s16le (sowt / 0x74776F73), 48000 Hz, stereo, s16, 1536 kb/s
Metadata:
creation_time : 2012-12-12 07:00:50
handler_name : Apple Alias Data Handler
Stream #0:2(eng): Data: none (tmcd / 0x64636D74)
Metadata:
creation_time : 2012-12-12 07:01:45
handler_name : Apple Alias Data Handler
timecode : 00:00:00;00


PRE11_DV_export:

Metadata:
major_brand : qt
minor_version : 537199360
compatible_brands: qt
creation_time : 2012-12-12 06:52:07
Duration: 00:04:00.80, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 30309 kb/s
Stream #0:0(eng): Video: dvvideo (dvc / 0x20637664), yuv411p, 720x480 [SAR 8:9 DAR 4:3], 28771 kb/s, SAR 10:11 DAR 15:11, 29.97 fps, 29.97 tbr, 30k tbn, 29.97 tbc
Metadata:
creation_time : 2012-12-12 06:52:07
handler_name : Apple Alias Data Handler
Stream #0:1(eng): Audio: pcm_s16le (sowt / 0x74776F73), 48000 Hz, stereo, s16, 1536 kb/s
Metadata:
creation_time : 2012-12-12 06:52:07
handler_name : Apple Alias Data Handler
Stream #0:2(eng): Data: none (tmcd / 0x64636D74)
Metadata:
creation_time : 2012-12-12 06:53:13
handler_name : Apple Alias Data Handler
timecode : 00:00:00:00


Edius_neo_DV-export:

Metadata:
major_brand : qt
minor_version : 537199360
compatible_brands: qt
creation_time : 2012-12-08 18:09:27
Duration: 00:04:00.30, start: 0.000000, bitrate: 30315 kb/s
Stream #0:0(eng): Video: dvvideo (dvc / 0x20637664), yuv411p, 720x480 [SAR 8:9 DAR 4:3], 28771 kb/s, SAR 10:11 DAR 15:11, 29.97 fps, 29.97 tbr, 30k tbn, 29.97 tbc
Metadata:
creation_time : 2012-12-08 18:09:27
handler_name : Apple Alias Data Handler
Stream #0:1(eng): Audio: pcm_s16be (twos / 0x736F7774), 48000 Hz, stereo, s16, 1536 kb/s
Metadata:
creation_time : 2012-12-08 18:09:27
handler_name : Apple Alias Data Handler

Best regards,
Erik

[Steve Grisetti]

There clearly is a difference.