vcr/playback for analog video when converting

[akcorcoran]

hi there -

I'm working on converting home videos to DVD. I just got a Canopus ADVC-300 and am very excited about that. This makes converting camcorder tapes very easy assuming I go camera to Canopus to my iMac (have the camera with aV outputs for a Hi8 and VHS-C camcorders) and can go DV to the computer. My question is on converting actual VHS tapes.

With the Canopus, how much does it matter the quality of the VCR for playback? I have a very high-quality VCR/DVD-RW Panasonic but we are also using it for my family so it's down in the living room. I have a spare straight-up VCR that's probably 8 years old - I can put that in the office and plug into the Canopus but is that going to make a poorer quality video for capture for the DVD?

Thanks -
Alexa

[Chuck Engels]

Hi Alexa,
The VCR can make a difference when it comes to the captured quality of the clips.
I would suggest using the best possible VCR for capturing your tapes.

The Canopus 300 might have a built in TBC which will help from dropping frames and that is good.
You made a great choice for digital conversion, the Canopus units are top of the line

You can always test capture a short clip with each VCR and see if you can notice a difference.
Use the oldest most worn out tape you can find, that will give you the best results.

[momoffduty]

I was asking some of the same questions under the Pyro thread that may help you. Page 6.

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=1784&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=pyro&start=75

[akcorcoran]

Thanks Chuck and Cheryl -

You know, I had only been thinking of settings on the Canopus which is why I spent the big bucks on the video capture device but now realize I've got to really think about the VCR for these tapes. Not sure my kids are going to let me hijack the DVD player and leave them with an old VCR. Durn.

Thx for the advice - I'm going to set up a few options and give them a try - most of these tapes are 5+ years old OR are just someone having recorded something themselves (aka, their child was on the news and they recorded it on their VCR) so they are not of great quaity.

Appreciate the help -
Alexa

[akcorcoran]

back again - three more questions:

1) I now have three VCR options (one mine, one my biz partners) - none are particularly new but I want to test them before I dismantle my entire tv/video system. I was going to look them up online to get specs - is there anything in particular I should be looking for in terms of good vcr fxns for playback quality? Have to dig around online - options are Go Video DV1030, Samsung VR5608. RCA VR601HF

2) do the cords make a tremendous difference? I have standard red/white/yellow or S-video cords from vcr. didn't go out and buy the super expensive audio/video cords, but should I for diff quality?

3) this is going to sound really stupid, but does it make any difference if I use outputs in back of VCR or front? Front is (obviously) easier to get to when testing three different vcrs.

Thanks!
Alexa

p.s. Should ask a final thing: if I wanted to buy a new piece to accomplish this, would I buy a full VCR or is there some sort of playback device that plays into canopus? If that or just a good vcr, what's the relative pricing these days? I'm clearly at a loss!

[Chuck Engels]

Hi Alexa,

1. JVC has long been my favorite brand of VCR for its quality.
If you have a JVC VCR and it has DigiPure Technology that is a plus

2. Cords can make a huge difference at times.
I recommend the Red and White RCA connections for Audio and the S-Video connection for Video.
A high quality S-Video cable would be a plus.

3. I think the front jacks are for input, not output, at least usually.
There are sometimes multiple inputs but usually only one or two outputs and those are generally on the back.

4. Any good JVC with DigiPure is an excellent choice, but with the Canopus that might not be necessary.
If your Canopus unit has TBC already then it should do a good job with the video and the VCR becomes less important.
Maybe some of the Canopus users can chime in on that aspect and if any other equipment might help at all.
Good quality VCRs are getting hard to come by and are rather expensive these days. You can easily spend $500 USD on a good one.
eBay is a good source, although they go for pretty high prices even there. A local pawn shop is a great place to find used VCRs for cheap

[akcorcoran]

SO helpful! Thanks - hoping to hear from any Canopus users out there as to how much the vcr and cords do matter. This is great advice though -

(BTW, I do have a spare JVC but it's from - gulp, 1993, I think - a HR-J400U. I left it off as an option thinking that 15 years was a *century* in technology time! )

[Chuck Engels]

My two favorite VCRs were from around 1990, a JVC and a Fisher

[Peru]

SO helpful! Thanks - hoping to hear from any Canopus users out there as to how much the vcr and cords do matter.

I have found that cords did not matter much, as the quality of the old VCR tapes that I was capturing was not very high quality. I did have problems with some VCR players, in that not all players seemed to play all tapes well. I had one tape that would play on only one player.

[Chuck Engels]

If you are using the RCA cables for video and audio the cables won't make much difference.
If you are using S-Video then the cables can make a noticeable difference, IMO.
And there is a definite difference between RCA and S-Video.

[akcorcoran]

Thanks, Chuck and Peru. (And, BTW, Chuck, I'm going to try my old JVC just because - might as well since I'm trying the other three!)

I'm assuming by your post that S-Video is much better, right? And, I go S-Video for Video, then Red/White Audio component? If camera only has analog, is there a Red/white yellow split to outputs of S-Video and Audio - should I look for that?

Thanks again, all - this is *invaluable* assistance -
Alexa

[Chuck Engels]

If camera only has analog, is there a Red/white yellow split to outputs of S-Video and Audio - should I look for that?

If there is no S-Video port then don't worry about it.

I'm assuming by your post that S-Video is much better, right? And, I go S-Video for Video, then Red/White Audio component?

Yes, S-Video would be best. S-Video out for the video and Red and White RCA for the audio.
If it happens to only have one audio out then you will want to split that before going into the Canopus converter so you get a stereo capture

[akcorcoran]

bleh - old vcr only has component video/audio out for vcr and s-video for DVD? Is that b/c dvd is digital and vcr tape not - just analog - or is that b/c it's old. unforch, dvd doesn't work in this combo unit!

hooking up component video/audio to vcr now to try but I'll never know difference unless I dig out my real dvd/vcr from tv cabinet - nightmare - or buy new one (also nightmare unless maybe pawn shop or ebay).

Thx -
Alexa

[Bob]

It's partly the progression of technology. Composite video was first with red, white, and yellow cables. Audio was carried on the red and white, while video was carried on the yellow. S-video was next. The yellow single video cable was replaced by a cable with two video signals -- one carrying the color information, the other carrying the brightness information. S-Video is noticably better than composite video. Next was component video. component video uses three video cables (coded red, green, blue) with the audio still using separate cables. Like composite video, this uses RCA connectors. Note that the cable coloring doesn't mean the cables are carrying the red, green, and blue color signals. Actually one carries the brightness information and the other two carry color information. Component Video is even higher quality than s-video but the difference is not as great as the composite to s-video difference. In practice component video and s-video are very close. All of these are analog connections. You'll generally see vcrs using composite or s-video, not component video. You will see component video output on some DVD players. DVD's actually record the video information in component form and players have to convert to produce s-video. Now we have digital output as well and you'll see DVI, which requires a separate audio connection, and HDMI which has the same digital video as DVI but carries the audio in the same cable.

The quality of the cable is very important with digital cables. Poorly made digital cables can seriously degrade the image or even not work at all with some sets. Analog is much more robust. If you are using a digital hookup, it's definitely worth getting well made cables.

[akcorcoran]

Wow - thanks for the thorough explanation. That will be helpful to lots of folks (newbies, like me), I'm sure!

I bought high-quality component video (red, white, yellow) as that's all that's offered in this vcr. only our dvd player (not even the combo unit) offers the red, green, blue and I'm not often doing dvd to dvd needing a separate player, right? And as lots of us have said, a vcr tape of old tv or old video usually isn't the greatest to begin with. Hoping that with the advc300 I can fix color and other issues, with Final Cut Express can do even more. If not, well, it'll be another investment but hopefully I can cover in a job. Right now, I have about a 8 to 1 ratio of camcorder tapes to straight-up VCR tapes, so it's less often that I need it. Still want to deliver best quality I can though.

Now, I'm not even halfway done as I have to edit, produce DVD and even montages with the footage! Will have to get this timing down ...

Just realized that I'll also have to switch out the component cords every time I go to one of the analog camcorders (a VHS-C and a Hi8 camcorder - ah well).

Thanks again - Alexa