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Blown Whites in Video

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Blown Whites in Video

Postby _Paz_ » Mon Jul 20, 2015 5:55 pm

Recently I swapped my two video recorders so now I'm shooting with my Panasonic HC-900M and filming my paintings with my JVC GZ-GX1.

I've always thought the Pany would be the superior camera. It has a Leica lens, better resolution on individual still frames and the ability to adjust focus, shutter speed and/or iris manually via a ring on the end of the camera. The Pany seems to have less trouble with rolling shutter than the JVC.

The JVC has a 'motion activation' mode which I LOVE for wildlife. And it quickly adjusts, but it also can have enough chromatic aberration, that is, purple fringing, especially on fast moving objects like white ducks, to make many images unusable for painting.

Features are really pretty similar but both have problems with blown whites. It's possible to press "auto exposure - auto focus" on the JVC and it quickly adjusts. The Pany has this too but ONLY in fully automatic mode and it simply doesn't get the job done.

The Pany manual only suggests setting shutter speed before setting iris. It does not give any suggestions on what range to choose. I've found setting one after the other takes a bit of time and realize I've begun to adjust iris only - but either way, by the time the whites are not fully zebraed the mid tones and darks are really dark. Maybe I'll be able to adjust this in Premiere Pro, maybe not.

So. How to get around this? I'd love it if the Pany worked better in automatic mode but clouds, white ducks, white water lilies, white buildings are all totally blown out when using the Pany in "Intelligent Automatic" mode. Maybe there's something I'm not intelligent enough to get! I keep trying to read the bloomin' manual but then I wake up and it is the next day!

Is there an easy way to diminish the range of contrast via some sort of filter?

What range is okay for shutter speed? I understand what works for 35mm stills, but video isn't still.

If shutter speed should be set first, does that mean it should be possible to do it only instead of iris only? And would that be
better?

From the manual:
"Shutter Speed:
Adjust it when recording fast-moving subjects.
Iris:
Adjust it when the screen is too bright or too dark.

Press the iA/MANUAL button or the CAMERA FUNCTION button to switch to Manual
Mode. (l 83)
For how to perform the settings when using the viewfinder, refer to page 84.

Press the iA/MANUAL button to switch to Manual Mode. (l 83)
1 Touch [SHTR] or [IRIS].
2 Touch / to adjust settings.
≥ Touch [SHTR]/[IRIS] to complete the adjustments.
Shutter speed:
1/60 to 1/8000
≥ If [AUTO SLOW SHTR (2D)] is set to [ON], the shutter speed will be set between 1/30 and
1/8000.
≥ If [DIGITAL CINEMA] is set to [ON], the shutter speed will be set between 1/48 and 1/8000.
(When [AUTO SLOW SHTR (2D)] is set to [ON], the range is 1/24 to 1/8000.)
≥ The shutter speed closer to 1/8000 is faster.
≥ The shutter speed will be set between 1/2 and 1/2000 in Still Picture Recording Mode.
Iris/Gain value:
CLOSE !# (F16 to F1.7) !# OPEN !# (0dB to 18dB)
≥ Value closer to CLOSE darken the image.
≥ Value closer to 18dB brighten the image."

thanks for any thoughts or suggestions,

Paz
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Re: Blown Whites in Video

Postby _Paz_ » Mon Jul 20, 2015 6:05 pm

While looking this up I noticed that the "scenery" mode in "Intelligent Automatic" is supposed to keep skies from being blown.

I'll try that next time I go out. Wouldn't it be grand if that would make it all work right!!!!!!???

Footage taken with the GoPro 4 has a better range of light to dark with blue skies and white clouds with detail than the Pany.

With all the adjustments the Pany has available I figure I must be doing something wrong.
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Re: Blown Whites in Video

Postby sidd finch » Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:16 pm

Paz would a neutral density filter do the trick? I have used one on my old Sony HC1 and it worked really well.

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Re: Blown Whites in Video

Postby _Paz_ » Tue Jul 21, 2015 9:54 am

Possibly, Sidd. I've always thought of ND filters as a way to increase exposure time in order to get "misty" waterfalls and such. I'm not at all sure that would be a help when trying to get wings flapping if a white duck takes off flying over the water.

I've also used a split ND filter to get detail in the sky without darkening the landscape too much. That's not going to work with moving ducks, geese, swans in video.

I played around some last night with PrePro CS6 and the Shadows/Highlights filters. It helped some blown out waterlily pads a little. I know it isn't going to work on the blown ducks and geese because in the really hot spots there is no detail there. When I close the iris, everything is overly dark except the birds.

I tried "Scenery Mode" automatic just before sunset yesterday. It was already too dark to tell. But I did learn that once in the various 'auto modes' it is not possible to select and track a moving object to keep it in focus. The tracking mode is supposed to set the correct exposure too, and does on my JVC, but not the Pany.

I need to find my camera filters. Not sure I'm going to have the correct step up ring. I suppose I can simply hold one over the lens to see the result. Probably tomorrow before I can get back to the duck pond.
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Re: Blown Whites in Video

Postby Bob » Tue Jul 21, 2015 3:10 pm

A neutral density filter isn't likely to help with that. A ND filter will allow you to use a slower shutter speed to increase blur such as with your moving water example. Alternately, it will allow you to open the iris to decrease depth of field such as when you are taking a portrait and you want to increase the blur in the background. And, of course, split or graduated ND filters can help reduce the exposure of half of the scene, for example, to keep the sky from blowing out.

If the details are blown out, the object is overexposed. The only way to get detail back is to reduce the exposure. Manually adjust the exposure to bring out the details. That will, of course, darken the rest of the scene. In practice, it's a compromise between how much detail you want to bring back and how dark the rest of the image will be. You can reduce exposure by increasing the shutter speed or closing the iris. Increasing shutter speed will reduce motion blur, closing the iris will increase depth of field.

The Shadows/Highlights filter can help brighten the darker parts of the scene. But, it can't bring back detail that isn't there. In general, the filter will do a better job lightening the shadows than darkening the highlights. But, you are limited by the dynamic range of the camera sensor and the bit depth used by the camcorder. Next time you go to the duck pond, try reducing the exposure to keep detail in the ducks and try using the shadows/highlights filter to brighten the shadows. Let us know how that works out.
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Re: Blown Whites in Video

Postby Chuck Engels » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:20 pm

Nice explanation Bob, I sure learned something today :)
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Re: Blown Whites in Video

Postby _Paz_ » Wed Jul 29, 2015 9:11 am

I've been experimenting. Went to the duck pond and shot some video of either ducks or geese in every 'built in auto type" mode the camera has as well as a few combinations of manual settings.

It turned out that the "Scenery Mode" works pretty well for not blowing highlights. (Something that according to the manual, "Intelligent Auto" is supposed to be designed to do.)

Here is a short of the best of the tests, beginning with Intelligent Auto, which obviously doesn't work well:

(No editing adjustments. I think there would be room for improvements with the Shadow/Highlight filter.)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9QCZ3GY5xzo[/youtube]

I thought I was set! Mr. B has been working on the jon boat for me. He cleaned it out, welded a new ball head on the trailer and replaced those wheel bearings and tires, found one oarlock and made (forged?) a new one. He made a pair of oars and a new paddle and built a wooden seat base to attach a store bought seat (with swivel) to so I can be in front of the boat looking forward. We've figured out how to attach the GoPro to the bow.

We've been out a few times. Blown skies in the early vids, manual set too dark in later ones. Lookin' pretty good in the last batch shot with the Scenery Mode. BUT!!!!

The bloomin' camera won't focus on near objects when in Scenery Mode. :pull:

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38Snk1eUGtY[/youtube]
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Re: Blown Whites in Video

Postby Chuck Engels » Wed Jul 29, 2015 11:13 am

Experimentation and getting to know the equipment is so time consuming .... but very useful :)
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Re: Blown Whites in Video

Postby _Paz_ » Fri Jul 31, 2015 12:02 pm

Indeed, Chuck.

I was able to get out to try various modes again and decided the "Sports Mode" might be the one - but had to leave due to a strong thunderstorm. I had the overall camera's setting at -5 Exposure. I didn't see a lot of zebras but I didn't have brilliant sun. I was able to determine that I can focus on grass right at my feet with Sports Mode. If it winds up working it should have the advantage of having a shutter setting that should be the best for capturing multiple frames of things like flying ducks' wings.

I've gone through many, many manual settings. About the time I get it right an animal will move from sun to shade or vice versa and everything is all wrong again. I'm fairly convinced now that my "Intelligent" automatic is malfunctioning.
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Re: Blown Whites in Video

Postby _Paz_ » Thu Aug 06, 2015 6:04 pm

My experiments continue...

I've come across info that states that for video you should double the shutter speed. If you shoot at 24P, the shutter speed should be 1/48th or 1/50th. I generally shoot at 60P so that puts my basic shutter speed of choice at 1/120.

On that basis I've tried lots of shutter speeds. Anything in the f/3.4 range or wider is totally blown out on my Pany camcorde, even with the overall Exposure setting at the maximum low of minus 5. I tried out a polarizing filter and learned I can darken things with the filter enough to get decent exposure and an out of focus background with nice bokeh.

I've scoured YouTube for ND filter experiments with video and ordered a Syrp ND filter from B&H. I'll post results once I have some.
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